Windsor wrote: |
Brother AhmedBahgat, you should have explained to them and to the Persian guy that growing beards is not mandatory in Islam and that Hadiths and Sira are fabrications, or to be more politically correct, the prophet Muhammed, peace be upon him, did not do or say them. |
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Kafir-Harbi wrote: |
Hello Ahmed,
Can you please show me the verse from the koran that guides muslims to only eat halal meat ? Regards, Kafir -H |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
Salam mate Sorry for the delay, I missed your comment totally: وَلاَ تَأْكُلُواْ مِمَّا لَمْ يُذْكَرِ اسْمُ اللّهِ عَلَيْهِ وَإِنَّهُ لَفِسْقٌ وَإِنَّ الشَّيَاطِينَ لَيُوحُونَ إِلَى أَوْلِيَآئِهِمْ لِيُجَادِلُوكُمْ وَإِنْ أَطَعْتُمُوهُمْ إِنَّكُمْ لَمُشْرِكُونَ (121)
And do not eat of that upon which the name of Allah has not been mentioned, and indeed that is disobedience; and certainly the Shaitans inspire their guardians that they should argue with you; and if you obey them, then indeed you are polytheists. [Al Quran ; 6:121] Salam |
Kafir-Harbi wrote: | ||
Hello Ahmed, That verse does not mention anything about "HALAL SLAUGHTER". In fact it can be safely said that as long as the name of Allah is invoked, the meat is "HALAL", no matter how the animal is slaughtered, right ? regards, Kafir- H |
Farid wrote: |
Salaam, |
Farid wrote: |
First of all Ahmad, I do not speak arabic. |
Farid wrote: |
Please past it in English and I do not mind how it portrays Muhammad(pbuh), as long as it is true, |
Farid wrote: |
why should I? |
Farid wrote: |
Why do I believe it? Because I have studied the science of hadith. |
Farid wrote: |
But wether this is false or true, it does not affect my view at all.
Thank you. |
Farid wrote: |
Salaam, |
Farid wrote: |
First of Ahmad, if I came in strong in my last post, forgive me because I do not understand the anger in your part. |
Farid wrote: |
As for the hadith, I have already told you, I do not mind. |
Farid wrote: |
Dear Ahmad, I do not ignore Allah(swt). |
Farid wrote: |
The only problem I believe is your defintion of sublime morality. |
Farid wrote: |
It seems that you think sleeping with that many women is unholy. |
Farid wrote: |
Now tell me is it me or you who listens to others and not to Allah(swt) because I have yet to see a verse that forbids such act. |
Farid wrote: |
It seems that you agree with other people, |
Farid wrote: |
maybe the west, |
Farid wrote: |
that such act of sexual activity is immoral. |
Farid wrote: |
And lastly, how can you even know the authencity of the Quran without the ahadith? |
Farid wrote: |
Do not let your emotions take over your reason, Ahmad. |
Farid wrote: |
I wont have internet access for a while, I am writing from work and I am getting off right now. So do not expect a reply so soon. |
Farid wrote: |
Thank you and salaam. |
Farid wrote: |
Salaam, |
Farid wrote: |
Ahmed, you criticize my "blind" acceptance of the hadith. |
Farid wrote: |
And how I know is when you wrote, "What load of non sense was that? You said that you could not read it, why you asked me for a translation if you do not mind it BLINDLY? "I recognized the hadith when I put in google translation page. Even though the translation was not clear, it was clear enough to know what you were talking about. |
Farid wrote: |
Ahmed, sleeping with all your wives without taking a bath, according to you, is unclean. |
Farid wrote: |
"Remember, we are ordered by Allah to be FAIR with all wives, however because you ignores what Allah said, it is ok for you to sleep with the second, third and fourth wife after sleeping with the first and without having a bath in between |
Farid wrote: |
" Now Ahmed, you posted a verse from the Quran commanding Muhammad(pbuh) that he should shun uncleanness. Can you please show me where is Muhammad(pbuh) not shunning uncleanness in that hadith? |
Farid wrote: |
Or is the discussion about treating one's wives fairly? |
Farid wrote: |
If so, then not taking a bath in between is considered unfair by you and to be frank, that is just an opinion. Please provide evidence that is unfair from the Quran. |
Farid wrote: |
If this is about uncleanness, then I disagree that Muhammad(pbuh) was disobeying it. |
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Farid wrote: |
Lets take an imaginary example. Lets say Muhammad(pbuh) was building a mud house, of course he would get dirty. Now because of this verse, should he clean himself everytime mud gets on him or wait till he is finished with the job? If you go with the former, then Muhammad(pbuh) should be either very very careful to not get dirty or have lots of extra clothes. |
Farid wrote: |
As for my acceptance of the ahadith. You wrote, "
1) The hadith worshippers like you who AGREE with bukhari and his likes (you are certainly one of those) "Dear Ahmed, there is a hadith where Muhammad(pbuh) got rid of his clothes that had stains on it. Do you agree with that hadith? |
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Farid wrote: |
Or do you deny all of them because of a few? |
Farid wrote: |
I can cooperate with you if you reject a few, but if you reject them all, then count me out. |
Farid wrote: |
Thank you and Salaam. |
Farid wrote: |
Salaam, |
Farid wrote: |
Ahmed I will quickly quote you to pick up the pace here. "If you want a reason then fine, that is enough of a reason, i.e. it is not commanded by Allah to follow from the first place "Ok, then let it be it, as for me, I choose to listen to the prophet, though I wish to be careful of some. |
Farid wrote: |
Dear Ahmed, you quote a Quranic verse,
"Or have they associates who have prescribed for them in the religion that Allah does not sanction? And were it not for the word of judgment, decision would have certainly been given between them; and surely the unjust shall have a painful punishment. [The Quran ; 42:21] " Are you saying that listening to the prophet is religion not sanctioned by Allah(swt)? |
Farid wrote: |
Ahmed, I will stop replying to most of your statements because it is a wish of mine for this thread to be a little more fruitful. Therefore, I wish to put forward a subject that we can focus on and I believe the subject to be of much importance in this talk. |
Farid wrote: |
The subject is the authencity of the hadith. If the hadith are not authentic, then why should I believe it? If they are authentic, then why wont you believe it? |
Farid wrote: |
I do hope we are in agreement here. |
Farid wrote: |
Let us start our discussion. |
Farid wrote: |
I have already told you about the student of Abu Hurairah, |
Farid wrote: |
but you went off swearing at Abu Hurairah. |
Farid wrote: |
Dear Ahmed, my point has nothing to do with Abu Hurairah, my point was the effectiveness of the method used in Sahih Bukhari. |
Farid wrote: |
Taking this in mind, we can see that the method was indeed effective, but I am not saying that this will be the case for every hadith. |
Farid wrote: |
I understand you rejecting some ahadith, |
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Farid wrote: |
but if they are based on your emotions, |
Farid wrote: |
then I do not take it that as valid evidence. |
Farid wrote: |
Saying Muhammad(pbuh) would never do that while you do not really know will not be evidence. |
Farid wrote: |
Now I do not feel the need to explain to you the science of hadith, I believe you know it already. But in case you do not, there are many books and sites you can visit to learn about it, try google.com and you should find alot. |
Farid wrote: |
After you have studied the science of hadith, you can approach me with some questions if you would like. |
Farid wrote: |
Dear Ahmed, do not approach me saying that we can not know 100% the heart of the transmitters, no dear Ahmed, we hardly know 100% if we even exist, let alone knowing the heart of a man we have never met. |
Farid wrote: |
Dear Ahmed, please provide evidence that I should reject ahadith. And I will do my best to provide evidence to accept most of the ahadith.
Thank you. |
BMZ wrote: |
That is why, Ahmed, when I discuss with Ulema and scholars, I tell them that Islam does not need reformation.
Hadith Collections need to be reformed. |
BMZ wrote: |
All the junk and stuff should be removed and only the beautiful genuine sayings of the Prophet should be kept. |
BMZ wrote: |
All Ibns like Ibn Hisham types should be struck off.
Salaams BMZ |
farid wrote: |
Salaam,
I believe you have the Quran misinterpreted Ahmed. Allow me to quote to you from the science of Quran about why the 9:126 was revealed and see if it has anything to do with arguments. |
farid wrote: |
16:126]. Abu Hassan al-Muzakki informed us> Abu'l-'Abbas Muhammad ibn Ishaq> Musa ibn Ishaq> Yahya ibn 'Abd al-Hamid al-Humani> Qays ibn Abi Layla> al-Hakam> Muqassim> Ibn 'Abbas who reported that, |
farid wrote: |
on the day Hamzah was killed and mutilated, |
farid wrote: |
the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, said: ?????????????????????¢??If I get my hand on the Quraysh I will mutilate seventy men of them. |
farid wrote: |
Allah, exalted is He, then revealed (If ye punish, then punish with the like of that wherewith ye were afflicted. But if ye endure patiently, |
farid wrote: |
verily it is better for the patient), upon which the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, said: 'I would rather be patient, O Lord!' ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? The commentators of the Qur'an said: ?????????????????????¢??When the Muslims saw what the idolaters did to their dead at the Battle of Uhud in terms of ripping open their stomachs, cutting off their male organs and mutilating them in the most ugly way, they said: 'If Allah gives us a chance to get our hands on them, we will mutilate them even worse than what they did; we shall maim them in a way that none of the Arabs did before to any other Arab; and we shall do this and we shall do that'. The Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, stopped at the body of his paternal uncle Hamzah with his nose and ears amputated, his male organs cut off and his stomach ripped open. Hind bint 'Utbah had taken a piece of his liver, chewed it and swallowed it but her stomach could not take it and she threw it up. When the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, heard of this, he said: 'She would have never entered hell if she did digest it; Hamzah is too noble in the sight of Allah to allow any part of his body to enter hell'. When the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, saw Hamzah [lying dead and mutilated], he had never seen, before that, anything which was more painful to his heart. And so he said: 'May Allah's mercy be on you; you were, as far as I know, someone who kept his ties of kinship and did always good deeds. Had it not been for the grieving of those who survived of your family, it would have pleased me to leave you as you are until you are resurrected [on the Day of Judgement] from different bellies. By Allah, if Allah, exalted is He, gives me the opportunity to lay my hand on them, I will mutilate seventy men of them, for what they did to you'. But Allah, exalted is He, revealed (If ye punish, then punish with the like of that wherewith ye were afflicted. But if ye endure patiently, verily it is better for the patient) and so the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, said: 'I would rather be patient', and then he made amends for the oath he had made?????????????????????¢??????????????????????. Here, we need to mention how Hamzah was killed. 'Amr ibn Abi 'Amr al-Muzakki informed us> Muhammad ibn Makki> Muhammad ibn Yusuf> Muhammad ibn Isma'il al-Ju'fi> Abu Ja'far Muhammad ibn 'Abd Allah> Hujayn ibn al-Muthanna> 'Abd al-'Aziz ibn 'Abd Allah ibn Abi Salamah. And we were informed by Muhammad ibn Ibrahim ibn Muhammad ibn Yahya> his father> Muhammad ibn Ishaq al-Thaqafi> Sa'id ibn Yahya al-Umawi> his father> Muhammad ibn Ishaq> 'Abd Allah ibn al-Fadl ibn 'Ayyash ibn Abi Rabi'ah> Sulayman ibn Yasar> Ja'far ibn 'Amr ibn Umayyah al-Damri who said: ?????????????????????¢??I travelled with 'Ubayd Allah ibn 'Adiyy ibn al-Khiyar through Hums. While we were there 'Ubayd Allah said to me: 'Do you wish to go to visit Wahshiyy to ask him how he killed Hamzah'. I said: 'If you want to'. A man said to us: 'You will find him in the courtyard of his house; he is a man who is always drunk. However, if he is sober, he will speak in Arabic and you might find what you are after'. When we got to him, we greeted him and he raised his head. We said: 'We have come to you to tell us about your killing of Hamzah, may Allah have mercy on him'. He said: 'I will relate to you exactly what I related to the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, when he asked me about the same. I was a slave of Jubayr ibn Mut'im ibn 'Adiyy ibn Nawfal whose uncle Tu'aymah ibn 'Adiyy was killed at the Battle of Badr. When the Quraysh marched toward Uhud, Jubayr ibn Mut'im said to me: 'You are free if you kill Hamzah, Muhammad's uncle, as a revenge for the killing of my uncle Tu'aymah'. I went out with them. It is to be remembered that I am an Abyssinian who is expert in throwing spears, like all Abyssinians, and I never missed my target. When the two sides met, I went looking for Hamzah until I saw him in the middle of the army, like a white-and-black camel, slaughtering people with his sword such that nothing stood in his way. By Allah, I was waiting for my moment, hiding behind a rock or tree, so that he drew closer to me, when Siba' ibn 'Abd al-'Uzza passed me and went toward him. When Hamzah, may Allah have mercy on him, saw him, he called him: 'Here, O son of a cutter of clitoris!' Then he struck him on the head and, by Allah, he did not miss. I moved my spear about until I felt comfortable and threw it at him. It caught him in the lower abdomen and the spear came out from his feet. He made a move toward me and then collapsed and I left him to die. I went toward him, retrieved my spear and joined the people at the camp. I did not want to kill anyone else, for I only killed him to gain my freedom. When I went back to Mecca, I was emancipated. I stayed there until Islam spread throughout it upon which I travelled to al-Ta'if. In Ta'if, they sent emissaries to the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, and mentioned that he does not harm emissaries. And so I went with them to the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace. When he saw me, he said: 'Are you Wahshiyy?' and when I answered in the affirmative, he asked again: 'You are the one who killed Hamzah?' I said: 'What happened is exactly as it was related to you'. He said: 'Could you keep your face away from me?' I left. When the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, died and Musaylimah the liar emerged to the people, I thought to go and kill Musaylimah to cancel out my killing of Hamzah. I went out with people, and what happened to him is now known' ?????????????????????¢??????????????????????. |
farid wrote: |
Al-Jalalyn also agrees with this.
After Hamza [b. ?????????????????????¢??Abd al-Muttalib] had been killed and mutilated, and the Prophet (s) had seen him and said, ?????????????????????¢??Verily I will mutilate 70 of them for you?????????????????????¢??, the following was revealed: And if you retaliate, retaliate with the like of what you have been made to suffer; and yet if you endure patiently, [refraining] from revenge, verily that, namely, [that] enduring, is better for the patient. Thus the Prophet (s) refrained [from taking revenge] and made atonement for his oath, as reported by al-Bazzār. |
farid wrote: |
Lets take a look at tanwir al-miqbas min tafsir ibn Abbas: |
farid wrote: |
(If ye punish) mutilate, (then punish) mutilate (with the like of that wherewith ye were afflicted) with the like of that which your dead were mutilated. (But if ye endure patiently) and abstain from mutilation, (verily it is better for the patient) in the Hereafter. Thank you Ahmed. |
Cinnamon wrote: |
Muhammad and Allah two sacred names for the muslim. So far from their action, I have not seen how a muslim loves his god more than muhammad. |
charleslemartel wrote: |
Dear Ahmed and "Truth",
Will you guys please answer the simple questions asked by sum? To make it simpler, I will break it in parts: 1. Does Quran say that Muhammad committed any sin? 2. If yes, what were his sins? Hope you will not run away from these very simple and straightforward questions. |
charleslemartel wrote: |
Can you please attempt to answer the second question too? |
charleslemartel wrote: |
I know that Allah has not identified Muhammad's sins specifically. |
charleslemartel wrote: |
But we all know the life history of Muhammad and his various "noble" deeds. |
charleslemartel wrote: |
Do you think any of those deeds can be classified as "sins" in the eyes of Allah, |
charleslemartel wrote: |
or do you think that his sins have not been recorded by his followers at all? |
charleslemartel wrote: |
In other words, |
charleslemartel wrote: |
is there any action of Muhammad out of all that we know that you do not agree with? |