AhmedBahgat wrote: |
Hello mate
Look I have no problem that ost scietific miracles can be exsplained by science however not all the miracles in the Quran are scientifc and in this case science has noothig to do with it I will read you comment thorougly and add my replies to it, if I had anything to say Salam |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Hi Ahmed,
I hope you remember me. |
QuranandScience wrote: |
I have posted a new post in FFI, which i wanted to post here as well |
QuranandScience wrote: |
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Many of us heard about the Miracle of Jesus (PBUH) birth. |
QuranandScience wrote: |
How can any one proof scientifically that Jesus born without a Father. which is unscientific. |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Quran has answers to all Questions. Quran explains that jesus had a father. |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Proof 1
Surah 36 , Verses 36 Surah 49 , Verses 13 |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Glory to Allah, Who created in pairs all things that the earth produces, as well as their own (human) kind and (other) things of which they have no knowledge. :(Pickthall) |
QuranandScience wrote: |
This Clearly States that all Humans are born through pairs. If Jesus born with out a father , then this verses should have Except Jesus |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Proof 2
Surah 32 , Verses 8 Surah 18 , Verses 37 Surah 22 , Verses 5 Surah 35 , Verses 11 Surah 40 , Verses 67 Then He made his(Human) seed from a draught of despised fluid;:(Pickthall) According to this all Humans are made with the fluid(Sperm). If Jesus dint have a father, then this verses should have Except Jesus |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Proof 3
Surah 35 , Verses 43 Surah 50 , Verses 29 Surah 06 , Verses 115 Surah 10 , Verses 64 .... But no change wilt thou find in Allah.s way (of dealing): no turning off wilt thou find in Allah.s way (of dealing). |
QuranandScience wrote: |
This states that Allah will never change his laws, his words and the way he deals with everything. Then why would he create Jesus with out father by changing his laws and his way. |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Proof 4
Surah 6 , Verses 83,84,85,86,87 That was the reasoning about Us, which We gave to Abraham (to use) against his people: We raise whom We will, degree after degree: for thy Lord is full of wisdom and knowledge. We gave him Isaac and Jacob: all (three) guided: and before him, We guided Noah, and among his progeny, David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron: thus do We reward those who do good: And Zakariya and John, and Jesus and Elias: all in the ranks of the righteous: And Isma'il and Elisha, and Jonas, and Lot: and to all We gave favour above the nations: (To them) and to their fathers, and progeny and brethren: We chose them, and we guided them to a straight way.:(Yousuf Ali) |
QuranandScience wrote: |
All the messengers mentioned in this have a father. If Jesus dint had a father , why his name is here. |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Proof 5
Surah 3 , Verses 59 Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is. |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Surah 18 , Verses 37 (Other Humans)
Surah 22 , Verses 5 Surah 35 , Verses 11 Surah 40 , Verses 67 Surah 30 , Verses 20 And of His signs is this: He created you of dust, and behold you human beings, ranging widely :(Pickthall) |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Jesus and Adam are likely because they both(including all humans) are made of Dust, not because they both doesn't have a father. |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Proof 6
Surah 19 , Verses 21 (Birth of Jesus) He said: So (it will be). Thy Lord saith: It is easy for Me. And (it will be) that We may make of him a revelation for mankind and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing ordained. |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Surah 19 , Verses 9 (Birth of Yahya)
He said: So (it will be). Thy Lord saith: It is easy for Me, even as I createdthee before, when thou wast naught. |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Surah 3 , Verses 59 (Birth of Adam)
The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: Be. And he was. |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Surah 40 , Verses 68 (Birth of All Humans)
. It is He Who gives Life and Death; and when He decides upon an affair, He says to it, Be, and it is |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Jesus is created by Allah saying Be. That does not mean he doesnt have a father, because every body who has a father are also created by Allah saying Be |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Proof 7
Surah 66 Verses 12 (Birth of Jesus) And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout. |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Surah 15 , Verses 29 (Birth of Adam)
Surah 38 , Verses72 When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him. |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Surah 32 , Verses 9 (Birth of all Humans)
Surah 42 , Verses 52 Then He fashioned him and breathed into him of His spirit; and appointed for you hearing and sight and hearts. Small thanks give ye! |
QuranandScience wrote: |
If Jesus is Born by Allahs spirit , That does not mean he doesnt have a father, because everyone are born by allahs spirit. |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Proof 8
Surah 19 , verses 20 Surah 3 , verses 47 She said: My Lord! How can I have a child when no mortal hath touched me He said: So (it will be). Allah createth what He will. If He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is. |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Surah 19 , Verses 6
Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East. |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Surah 19 , Verses 22
So she conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place. |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Mary was untouched and Allah Gave her good thoughts of her son, Then she went against the rituals of the temple and married and moved to a remote place. |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Proof 9
Surah 21 , Verses 91 Surah 66 , Verses 12 And she who was chaste, therefor We breathed into her (something) of Our Spirit and made her and her son a token for (all) peoples. |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Chaste meanings: Virgin, Decent, Abstaining from unlawful sexual intercourse.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/chaste |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Surah 19 , Verses 28.
O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste |
QuranandScience wrote: |
This states that Mary's mother was not unchaste , that means she was chaste. Being a mother(Not virgin) she is chaste (Decent).
In Both the verses Chaste means Decent but not virgin |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Proof 10
Surah 66 , Verses 10,11,12 10 Allah sets forth, for an example to the Unbelievers, the wife of Noah and the wife of Lut: they were (respectively) under two of our righteous servants, but they were false to their (husbands), and they profited nothing before Allah on their account, but were told: Enter ye the Fire along with (others) that enter! 11 And Allah sets forth, as an example to those who believe the wife of Pharaoh: Behold she said: O my Lord! Build for me, in nearness to Thee, a mansion in the Garden, and save me from Pharaoh and his doings, and save me from those that do wrong; 12 And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity ; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout . |
QuranandScience wrote: |
In surah 66 , during the discussion about the prophets wife, Allah give example of four wifes (Believers and Not Believers).Because mary is married, her name is taken in such an examples with other wifes. |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
I do remember you, in fact this new thread that you opened has to be the continuity of this thread that you opened a few months back and just didn't care to explain to us your theories |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
Now if you will prove that he had a father then we have no bloody miracle, because he would have been born normally from a father and a mother, therefore, which bloody miracle that you are trying to explain scientifically by alleging that Jesus had a father? |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
So according to you the whole thing is not really to prove a miracle scientifically rather to prove that a miracle was not a miracle because you failed to prove it scientifically |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
The Quran never said that Jesus had a father you liar, sorry, I can't bear those who unshamely lie about the Quran and you are certainly one of them |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
The most logical and strongest of all refutes in the Quran to this silly allegation by you is simply the Quran never referred to Jesus that he had a father. |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
Let me summarize the above killer of an argument again: The favours of Allah were logically given to the followings: 1) To Solomon and his Parents 27:19 , upon myself and upon my parents 2) To All of us and our parents 46:15 upon myself and upon my parents 3) To Isa and HIS MOTHER 5:110 i.e. upon you and upon you mother Why Allah use the same words with Jesus but only mention HIS MOTHER? It seems there is one and perfect answer to that simple Question: JESUS HAS NO FATHER AS THE QURAN CONSISTANTLY INDICATED |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
As you can see above the only difference is the word , Min, which literally means From The English translation to the above should be: We created you male and female = We created you from a male and a female |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
A human can only come from the following possibilities: 1) From nothing: He created Adam from nothing 2) From a man only: He created Adam partner from Adam 3) From a woman only: He created Jesus from Mary 4) From a man and a woman: the rest of humanity |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
Why you think that Allah can't do that?, it seems you are very ignronat to what the God should be, I must excuse you for that. Allah is the law maker and He can change any law at any time He wishes without being questionable, even those who may go to the garden may be expelled later if Allah wants as He told is in the Quran, and even those who may go to hell, they may exist from it if Allah wills according o what he told us in the Quran zillions times that HE DOES WHAT HE WANTS WITHOUT BEIING QUESTIONABLE, Indeed Allah did it all when it comes to creating man, His laws were not changed you manipulator , it is all based on your flawed understating to 49:13 that Allah may create humans from a man and a woman only. I clearly exposed your lack of Arabic and proved it using the Arabic Quran as well proved that Allah achieved all 4 possibilities of creating a human, indeed you have the mind of a kafir which mean a disbeliever, i.e. DISBELIEVES WHAT THE GOD SAYS. |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
Possibly Allah sent an angel to deliver such sperm to her?, I'm sure that you know well the Quran said so, in fact Marium herself said that NO MAN HAS TOUOCHED HER, so why the hell you promoting a liw and say that a male human has slept with her:, let's look at the verse: |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
Look, you are repeating a baseless argument, Allah did not change His word regarding Jesus birth, it was planned by Allah all along to create Jesus as the only human to be created from a woman only, that is why he and his mother has to be a sign for allhumanity His laws were not changed you manipulator,..... |
AhmedBahgat wrote: | ||
What a stupid argument that is, it confirms how confused and desperate you are, then why Adam was included with all those who have fathers and mothers in the following verse, you fool: 3:33 Surely Allah chose Adam and Nuh and the descendants of Ibrahim and the descendants of Imran above the nations. |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
Adam and Jesus are alike can mean many things: 1) Both are humans 2) Both are prophets 3) Both are males 4) Both are chosen by Allah 5) Both have no father 6) Both are made of dust |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
Lol, the Quran does not say that he had no father because he was created via the word Be, rather he had no father because: 1) No male human touched Mary 2) Allah sent an angel who morphed into a shape of a human to deliver to her what is required to make her pregnant with Jesus |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
Well, the Quran clearly told us that Jesus had no father because: 1) No male human touched Mary 2) Allah sent an angel who morphed into a shape of a human to deliver to her what is required to make her pregnant with Jesus |
AhmedBahgat wrote: | ||
See, she was totally alone and away from her family, her family must include the unknown husband you invented in your Barbie world |
AhmedBahgat wrote: | ||
See, no mortal has touched her, therefore your lies and the lies of the Jews must be dismissed that a man has touched her |
AhmedBahgat wrote: | ||||
Another desperate argument, well Mary was VIRGIN because NO MORTAL TOUCHED HER Idiot In both verses the words means PROSTITUTE, i.e. they are telling her: why you have prostituted yourself while your mother was not a prostitute |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
Lol, another stupid and desperate proof, like your proof # 4 The 2 examples in these verse(Surah 66-10,11,12) you confused are nothing but an example of believing and believing women, it has nothing to do with them being married you fool |
QuranandScience wrote: |
I have just copy pasted from ffi. to complete the discussion
Let the Public Deside the truth. |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Out of 10 , how many proofs you will reject. |
QuranandScience wrote: |
Where as Proof 4 is the Direct evidence of the Father in Quran. |
AhmedBahgat wrote: | ||
All your proofs, lack merit and intelligence , they are all motivated with your clear ignorance to the language of the Quran.
Your proof # 4 is the most idiotic of them all, and I clearly showed you and everyone that the Quran also grouped Adam who has neither father nor mother with many other prophets who had parents (3:33) |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
Let me try to be simple, do you know the miracle shown to Ibrahim when he asked Allah to show him how He can revive the dead?, in this miracle we are informed that Ibrahim was told by Allah to bring 4 birds then cut them to pieces then scatter all these mixed pieces on different mountains and hills then call the birds, they will come walking to him Can you please explain the above miracle scientifically Salam |
QuranandScience wrote: | ||||||
I think , You dont want to Believe, or you are not understanding it. Surah 6 , Verses 83,84,85,86,87 , It not only Groups messenger but Allah mentions FATHERS. I recommend you to read one again (...... and to all We gave favour above the nations: (To them) and to their FATHERS.....) In verses 3:33, Adam is grouped with the messengers who Has Decendents (OffSpring). Here it is not mentioned about Father. Where as Its clearly mention FATHERS in Surah 6:87. Why Adam's name is not mentioned , in Surah 6 , verses 83,84,85,86,87. Because Adam doesnt have a Father. Your comments on 3:33 is only for OffSpring, not the Father. When Allah groups anything , he mentions the reason. Allah Grouped All the messengers in (Surah 6 , verses 83,84,85,86,87) except ADAM , And Allah Mentions about Their FATHERS. Think for some time , and see the difference between both the verses. I dont know how many times should i say FATHERS is mentioned in Quran 6:87.. There is no mention of FATHERS in 3:33. Cant you find this difference, If you dont accept His FATHER by the words of QURAN in 6:87. This Clearly Shows that, you are the ignorant. you want to believe what others are believing, but you don't want to accept the words of Allah 6:87 where "FATHERS" is mentioned. See I am not a Jew , nor a Christian to disturb your Faith. I am also a Muslim, which i am trying to make you a better muslims by understanding these verses. Please dont ignore : Read Surah 6:87 once again. (...... and to all We gave favour above the nations: (To them) and to their FATHERS.....)
See I clearly said you every thing in Quran can be explained scientifically. Because Science Laws are the Laws created by Allah not by humans. I am not saying but Allah Himself clearly said hat he will not change his LAWS, Words, And the way of dealing. And upon your request I am preparing for Miracle of MOSES STAFF. Let me complete This Miracle first and go to the Next Miracles. |
Quranandscience wrote: |
Many of us heard about the Miracle of Jesus (PBUH) birth.
How can any one proof scientifically that Jesus born without a Father. which is unscientific. |
Quote: |
Quran has answers to all Questions. Quran explains that jesus had a father. |
Quote: |
Proof 1
Surah 36 , Verses 36 Surah 49 , Verses 13 Glory to Allah, Who created in pairs all things that the earth produces, as well as their own (human) kind and (other) things of which they have no knowledge. :(Pickthall) This Clearly States that all Humans are born through pairs. If Jesus born with out a father , then this verses should have "Except Jesus" |
Quote: |
Proof 2
Surah 32 , Verses 8 Surah 18 , Verses 37 Surah 22 , Verses 5 Surah 35 , Verses 11 Surah 40 , Verses 67 Then He made his(Human) seed from a draught of despised fluid;:(Pickthall) According to this all Humans are made with the fluid(Sperm). If Jesus dint have a father, then this verses should have "Except Jesus" |
Quote: |
Proof 3
Surah 35 , Verses 43 Surah 50 , Verses 29 Surah 06 , Verses 115 Surah 10 , Verses 64 .... But no change wilt thou find in Allah.s way (of dealing): no turning off wilt thou find in Allah.s way (of dealing). This states that Allah will never change his laws, his words and the way he deals with everything. Then why would he create Jesus with out father by changing his laws and his way. |
Quote: |
Proof 4
Surah 6 , Verses 83,84,85,86,87 That was the reasoning about Us, which We gave to Abraham (to use) against his people: We raise whom We will, degree after degree: for thy Lord is full of wisdom and knowledge. We gave him Isaac and Jacob: all (three) guided: and before him, We guided Noah, and among his progeny, David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron: thus do We reward those who do good: And Zakariya and John, and Jesus and Elias: all in the ranks of the righteous: And Isma'il and Elisha, and Jonas, and Lot: and to all We gave favour above the nations: (To them) and to their fathers, and progeny and brethren: We chose them, and we guided them to a straight way.:(Yousuf Ali) All the messengers mentioned in this have a father. If Jesus dint had a father , why his name is here. |
Quote: |
Proof 5
Surah 3 , Verses 59 Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is. Surah 18 , Verses 37 (Other Humans) Surah 22 , Verses 5 Surah 35 , Verses 11 Surah 40 , Verses 67 Surah 30 , Verses 20 And of His signs is this: He created you of dust, and behold you human beings, ranging widely :(Pickthall) Jesus and Adam are likely because they both(including all humans) are made of Dust, not because they both doesn't have a father. |
Quote: |
Proof 6
Surah 19 , Verses 21 (Birth of Jesus) He said: So (it will be). Thy Lord saith: It is easy for Me. And (it will be) that We may make of him a revelation for mankind and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing ordained. Surah 19 , Verses 9 (Birth of Yahya) He said: So (it will be). Thy Lord saith: It is easy for Me, even as I createdthee before, when thou wast naught. Surah 3 , Verses 59 (Birth of Adam) The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was. Surah 40 , Verses 68 (Birth of All Humans) . It is He Who gives Life and Death; and when He decides upon an affair, He says to it, "Be", and it is Jesus is created by Allah saying "Be". That does not mean he doesnt have a father, because every body who has a father are also created by Allah saying "Be" |
Quote: |
Proof 7
Surah 66 Verses 12 (Birth of Jesus) And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout. Surah 15 , Verses 29 (Birth of Adam) Surah 38 , Verses72 "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him." Surah 32 , Verses 9 (Birth of all Humans) Surah 42 , Verses 52 Then He fashioned him and breathed into him of His spirit; and appointed for you hearing and sight and hearts. Small thanks give ye! If Jesus is Born by Allahs spirit , That does not mean he doesnt have a father, because everyone are born by allahs spirit. |
Quote: |
Proof 8
Surah 19 , verses 20 Surah 3 , verses 47 She said: My Lord! How can I have a child when no mortal hath touched me He said: So (it will be). Allah createth what He will. If He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is. Surah 19 , Verses 6 Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East. Surah 19 , Verses 22 So she conceived HIM, and she retired with HIM to a remote place. Conceived Means: to become pregnant with http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=conceived Mary was untouched and Allah Gave her good thoughts of her son, Then she went against the rituals of the temple and married and moved with HIM to a remote place. Here Him is referred to her Husband |
Quote: |
Proof 9
Surah 21 , Verses 91 Surah 66 , Verses 12 And she who was chaste, therefor We breathed into her (something) of Our Spirit and made her and her son a token for (all) peoples. Chaste meanings: Virgin, Decent, Abstaining from unlawful sexual intercourse. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/chaste Surah 19 , Verses 28. "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste This states that Mary's mother was not unchaste , that means she was chaste. Being a mother(Not virgin) she is chaste (Decent). In Both the verses Chaste means Decent but not virgin |
Quote: |
Proof 10
Surah 66 , Verses 10,11,12 10 Allah sets forth, for an example to the Unbelievers, the wife of Noah and the wife of Lut: they were (respectively) under two of our righteous servants, but they were false to their (husbands), and they profited nothing before Allah on their account, but were told: "Enter ye the Fire along with (others) that enter!" 11 And Allah sets forth, as an example to those who believe the wife of Pharaoh: Behold she said: "O my Lord! Build for me, in nearness to Thee, a mansion in the Garden, and save me from Pharaoh and his doings, and save me from those that do wrong"; 12 And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity ; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout . In surah 66 , during the discussion about the prophets wife, Allah give example of four wifes (Believers and Not Believers).Because mary is married, her name is taken in such an examples with other wifes. |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
Now I'm asking you: Did Jesus have a brother? Did Jesus have descendants of him?[/b][/size] If you answer No then you have been slam dunked Cheers |
Brendalee wrote: |
NONE of this in any way cancels out Sura 3:47. Ignoring what it so clearly says does not make it vanish. And IT says that Mary was a virgin mother impregnated by Allah's will and not by any man. |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
What verse you confused?6:87 then tell me mister, who are Jesus progney and brothers? |
AhmedBahgat wrote: |
see, a miracle is called a miracle because there is no explanation for it, however Q & S is telling us the Miracles can be explained scietifically and as you know if you can explain something strange then it can't be strange any more, i.e. Q & S is telling us that the Quran has no miracles |